Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

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ara
 
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Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby ara » 14 Sep 2013, 08:43

Hi! This is hard one for me to explain properly, so I'll just use an example. Just fire up Photoshop, it's the default brush behaviour. Unfortunately Photoshop is one on the only applications that has this mode, which is the sadly the main reason I haven't been able to move away from Adobe. Black Ink seems like a perfect fit for it though, still in beta and boldly digital, not trying to emulate real brushes. Very digital brush behaviour like this should fit right it.

Image

One of the left is Photoshop, one the right is Black Ink. Key points being the ones where the stroke overlaps with itself. Strokes are light (20-30%), with Wacom pressure sensitivity mapped only to opacity and color being pure black. The Photoshop brush makes flat shading far easier as the single brush stroke doesn't turn into more opaque as it crosses itself within the same stroke. For a single stroke, it takes the highest pressure applied at any given point, not the total sum. Separate strokes will add up just like they do everywhere else. The lower one is made by gradually increasing pressure throughout the stroke. I've tried to emulate this by mapping the Wacom pressure sensitivity to color, which goes from white to black, but it doesn't really work.

I know it's stupid to ask one software to be like some other, but I'm really disgruntled about the subscription only model introduced by Adobe, so I'm trying all my options to get away from them... Also, layered TIFF would be good save format for integrating Black Ink into production pipelines.

Disclaimer: Haven't bought the beta yet, waiting to see if this is greelighted as I'm seemingly unable to live without it. :P

ale
 
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Joined: 11 Sep 2013, 17:51

Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby ale » 15 Sep 2013, 21:00

I noted this thing too, it would be easier to shadow if you have a custom brush like that. I hope that il will be possible with the next features if it isn't now.

abalone
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby abalone » 16 Sep 2013, 17:03

I fully support this. :devil:

Also, ara, as far as I'm aware SAI and OpenCanvas also allow brushes like these.

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u2bleank
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby u2bleank » 16 Sep 2013, 18:02

There's a workaround :
Make your brush with almost no opacity. Then adjust the Opacity of the whole layer.
Tada :eek: you will got the same result..
In fact Photoshop & Co. do it that way.

ara
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby ara » 16 Sep 2013, 21:54

u2bleank wrote:There's a workaround :
Make your brush with almost no opacity. Then adjust the Opacity of the whole layer.
Tada :eek: you will got the same result..
In fact Photoshop & Co. do it that way.


Thank you for your time. That kinda sorta produces the same result in some cases, but not really.

If I were to create a new layer for each brush stroke, and manage each layers opacity individually, that would unfortunately produce only single opacity value per brush stroke (that is, per layer). I'm looking for the highest pressure/opacity applied per pixel, not across the whole stroke. Opacity would really need to be able to vary across the stroke.

Below is another image trying to illustrate the desired effect. It's made with a single stroke, but I made few passes over the area, always keeping the pressure light on the left and heavy on the right side of the image. Color is solid red and only opacity is varied.

Image

ara
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby ara » 16 Sep 2013, 21:56

abalone wrote:Also, ara, as far as I'm aware SAI and OpenCanvas also allow brushes like these.


Ah, I had completely forgotten about OpenCanvas. Thank you for reminding me, have to check where they have progressed over the years.

ale
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby ale » 17 Sep 2013, 07:26

It will be possible to do that in the next version of the software or is it a problem on how the system is though?
For what i need I could do with one layer per grey value but we would need to collapse layer and it wouldn't be very pratical anyway.

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u2bleank
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby u2bleank » 17 Sep 2013, 15:03

It will be possible to do that in the next version of the software or is it a problem on how the system is though?
For what i need I could do with one layer per grey value but we would need to collapse layer and it wouldn't be very pratical anyway.


Yes Black Ink has been designed to behave this way ( not like Photoshop & Co ). We thought it's better.
But the Layer collapsing option is on it's way and will come for sure in the future.
( for example I can do that with one stroke wich is impossible to do with phoptoshop even after applying a Shadow effect on your brush )
Image
PS : this brush isn't integrated in Black Ink yet

ale
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby ale » 17 Sep 2013, 15:50

Yeah I can see how you system is different and better in different ways but I was hoping that with all the parameters we have we could achieve that simple effect (simple to my eyes I mean).

As have you see in my other thread I find a way to paint with this system so maybe is only a matter of changing a bit our working model, I'm not worried.
The only thing is that with the Ps brush you have much more control shading or mixing colour. Because you don't have to worry that crossing your stroke multiple times in a single stroke (again sorry my english) can change the value. A way to do this is to paint a big stroke than erase the unnecessary or have a very low opacity brush so you can match the right value more easily (that is what I did in my thread pictures).

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u2bleank
 
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Re: Brush mode that doesn't add up within a single stroke

Postby u2bleank » 17 Sep 2013, 15:57

The only thing is that with the Ps brush you have much more control shading or mixing colour. Because you don't have to worry that crossing your stroke multiple times in a single stroke (again sorry my english) can change the value. A way to do this is to paint a big stroke than erase the unnecessary or have a very low opacity brush so you can match the right value more easily (that is what I did in my thread pictures).


In that case use the Preserve Transparency option for your layer. ( it's a little option in the lower right of the layer thumbnail ). Then you will not change the Alpha value of the layer only the color when brushing.

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